Marriage of Growth: Beyond Happily Ever After – Transcript

00:00:00 – Introduction – Reunion in the Airport

full episode

Brent: So I saw her across the airport. I walked down the ramp. I had traveled thousands of miles. I had been gone months and months and months. And across this airport, I saw the most beautiful woman I had ever seen. And she had these little French braid in her hair and she had a yellow ribbon all braided all in there. And when she saw me, she raced to me, and she threw her arms around me in a big hug and I snatched her up. And there might have been some tears. And I was home. I was home from Desert Storm. I was back with my wife. I was back with my daughter. We had survived deathly adventures and explosions and all kinds of weird, toxic nonsense and crossed oceans and multiple time zones. And we were back together again. All our problems were behind us. And we lived happily ever after.

Camille: Ehhhhh.

Brent: All right, so everything was-

Camille: That is not what happened.

Brent: Everything was true right up to that point.

Camille: Yeah, that was true, and we definitely looked forward to seeing each other. That was a long time to be apart.

Brent: That was a good-

Camille: That was many tears.

Brent: That was good.

Camille: That was hardcore, and I never want to relive that season ever again.

Brent: What was the soul band that did Reunited? Was that Peaches and Herb?

Camille & Brent: Reunited and it feels so good.

Brent: See Bracketeers? I’m not the only one. I’ve trained her well.

Camille: That’s right. And it did feel good. We were reunited and it did feel good.

Brent: Thanks for that.

Announcer: Full Mental Bracket. This is Full Mental Bracket. – 01:41

Brent: So Bracketeers, what we’re talking about today is that how classic stories about adventures or romance or marriage in any way, they usually end with this happily ever after. You know, Cinderella has all these problems. She’s dealing with a sketchy stepmom and the stepsisters and she’s got glass slippers and she’s got to do this and do this. And finally, the handsome prince rescues her from all that and all her problems are behind her. And then, if that’s a little too feminine for your movie tastes, consider Speed with Keanu Reeves, who defuses the bomb, saves all the passengers on the bus, and goes off into the sunset with Sandra Bullock.

Camille: And he looked good doing it, too.

Brent: Yeah, he did. Yeah, yeah, thanks, thanks for that. Well, Sandra Bullock didn’t look too bad either, but fine.

Camille: That’s true, that’s true.

Brent: You don’t see me, but anyway. So carrying on, so, but then the credits come down, the music goes, your wife hyperventilates, and then, but it’s implied that all of their problems are behind them because they have found true love.

Camille: But would you really wanna watch a movie or a story that didn’t have a happy ending?

Brent: I mean, I know that you don’t, I do from time to time. But that’s a different, that’s a different, well, that’s a different episode. Yes, but I mean, no, I guess it’s part of this episode. We are drawn to the happy ending. It’s nice to feel that once we are reunited, that we’ve been, you know, let’s go back to the personal story. I had worked so hard and waited so long to get to that point, it really felt like that was the happy ending. Like, it doesn’t matter what happens after this. This is so good, when I get there, It’s the hedonic treadmill. Once I get this thing, I’m going to be happy forever. And then the hedonic adjustment adjusts and you’re like, I’m I’m I’m I’m I’m decent. I’m OK. I’m not happy forever.

Camille: I mean, in that moment, that was that was a happy ending. It really was. And we had worked really hard to get to that point. We had suffered quite a bit in the separation and it was a joyous reunion. But the next two weeks later when we’re living in the crap motel room with the roaches. And that was that was probably not a happy ending.

Brent: Yeah, I wasn’t going to tell that part of the story. But there was a lot of things that happened. There was the crap motel room. There was the there was the adjustment to get to find our balance. Right. Because I’ve been living solo. You’ve been living solo, raising the baby.

Camille: Oh yeah, I forgot about that.

Brent: You had your own groove. I had my own groove.

Camille: That’s true.

Brent: I came back and we were throwing off each other’s grooves. We got in a lot of fights.

Camille: Yeah, we really had to find-

Brent: I was like, we’ve always done it this way. Like we did it this way until you left and now we’ve been doing it this way. I was like, well, I don’t do it that way. There was a lot of readjustments.

Camille: I really remember the time you wanted to take over the checkbook too. You were like, oh yeah, let me just do that from now on. How long did that last?

Brent: Not long.

Camille: Not long. That’s what I thought.

Brent: If you listened to our previous episode on marriage, we talked about how the chores in our household don’t necessarily fall along gender stereotype roles. Camille is really good with numbers, so I let her run with that. See how generous I am?

Camille: Oh, he’s so generous!

Brent: I let her run with that. And you know, when it comes to other chores around the house, or even cleaning the furious scuzz out of the bathroom, I’m not too manly to do that. I don’t mind doing that. I take care of other things.

Camille: That’s true. I don’t clean bathrooms. I don’t.

Brent: That’s true. You don’t turn on lights either.

Camille: No, I don’t.

Brent: I could quit my job today and have a full-time job turning on light switches for this woman for the rest of my life.

Camille: I work on my computer. I don’t need overhead lights to work. The computer has its own light. I don’t understand.

Brent: She thinks she has x-ray vision, but that is not the case. Anyway, so carrying on. You get the season where you, all your problems, you feel like all your problems are behind you. You’ve entered this season of comfort and ease. But if you think about that, this happy ever after, this wedded bliss, it’s really kind of a boring plot. Who would want a story that starts there if it never goes anywhere?

Camille: Ooh, not me.

Brent: I mean, we talk about that, you know, nothing ever went wrong again.

Camille: I mean, you really appreciate things more when you have to say, like, you have to save up to get something. Yeah. And the longer you have to save up for that thing that you want, the more that it means to you.

Brent: Absolutely.

Camille: If somebody just gave it to you, it doesn’t mean as much as if you had to work. You put in the sweat, you put in the work, and now you’ve got the thing.

Brent: And I think this is a concept that we mentioned in several episodes. It’s the pleasure versus the purpose, or the fancy words, the hedonic versus the eudaimonic. It’s like there’s the enjoyment of the moment, and then there’s the satisfaction of getting there. And those are two different things, and it’s great when they line up together.

Camille: Yeah.

Brent: It’s like, it’s been a long time getting here, and I’m really satisfied. Where if you just walk through the door, like, oh look, I’m here. Like a door opens on the top. the top of a giant mountain, you know, you’re at the top of the Himalayas, and you just open a door, oh yeah, view’s magnificent. Like, it took us three months to hike up over here. I was like, really? It took me about 30 seconds. And it’s like, who’s gonna enjoy that?

Camille: I think that’s part of the reason why people who have children who give them everything they ever want.

Brent: Oh, that’s true.

Camille: And they don’t have to work for those items. They don’t appreciate those things as much as kids who’ve had to work, who’ve had to put in something. They’ve had to sacrifice something of themselves to get what they wanted.

Brent: You know, and a thing that comes up on the show a lot is we talk about the easy button. People want, I’m with them, I want the easy button, but when you, if A, it doesn’t usually work, and if it does work, the satisfaction doesn’t last very long because it was so easy.

Camille: That’s true.

Brent: Now we’re not saying that your marriage should be more difficult just so it can be more satisfying.

Camille: No, that’s definitely not what we’re saying.

Brent: I’m gonna start off the day with a few key insults to make sure we’re really leaning into the challenge. No, that’s not what I’m saying. What I’m saying is, in the real world, you don’t have to lean into that. It actually happens. You get a much more dynamic real-world plot than Happily Ever After. You know, in your, in your, in any relationship, in any marriage, or even in platonic relationships, there’s going to be lots of up and downs. There’s going to be try fail cycles where you have to try multiple things to try to get it right. And there’s going to be character arcs where in response to the challenges and the adversity they have to face, you grow and, and mature and you end up with this long-term satisfaction.

Camille: I think, I think we’ve, we’ve accomplished a lot of that in our, in our marriage.

Brent: I think you’re right, I think.

Camille: I mean, we’re still here.

Brent: Yeah. Yeah. That’s, that’s important. We’re not in jail. So that’s good. Um, no, but I think, I think that, you know, we got married really young and really immature. And, uh, there’s a lot of times that I don’t think we would actually recognize the younger version of ourselves.

Camille: Oh, absolutely not. That would, that was, I was a completely different person at 19 before kids. And you were a completely different person at 19 before kids. And our relationship had to really grow and our friendship had to grow.

Brent: I remember a moment and it was. Not all that long ago. Okay, maybe 10 years ago. But I remember distinctly, we had this discussion, and you said to me specifically, you’re not the man I married. And I said, let’s stop and think about that. Let’s think about what a great thing that is. This 20-year-old insecure guy, running around, always afraid of this, that, and the other. Do you really want to be married to that guy? And you’re like, no, not really. It’s like, all right, so let’s, we are growing, we are changing, we are maturing together and separately, and we have to come to terms with that, which is basically what this episode is about, Bracketeers.

Brent: In every relationship, you have three character arcs. You have partner’s one character arc, as she is growing and maturing in response to her challenges. You have partner two’s character arc, as I am growing and maturing in responding to my challenges.

Camille: And then you have the third one.

Brent: Which is?

Camille: Which is the marriage as its own.

Brent: Yes, the marriage almost acts as its own character because it is also going to grow and mature related to the other two, but also kind of semi-independently. You could be doing awesome, I could be doing terrible, and the relationship may be somewhere in the middle. Because we’re all in this thing together.

Camille: We are.

Brent: So as we were saying, the happily ever stories, they focus on immediate pleasure, on this wedded bliss, on this instant satisfaction. You know, as we’re talking about the hedonic versus the eudaimonic. But marriage is more better thought of as an investment, as something that you contribute to, maybe even have to make small sacrifices regularly, daily, for a more long-term response.

Camille: That’s so true. And if you really think about it, it boils down to, I have to give, I have to pour into this relationship. And it can not just about marriage, it can apply to your relationship with your kids, with your longtime friends. If you don’t continue to pour something into that relationship, it’s going to slowly wither and die.

Brent: Well, you know, and even outside relationships, this is something that James Clear makes in his Atomic Habits book. It’s that this incremental improvement. If you can improve 1% every day, you know, for that first six months or a year, it doesn’t look like you’re doing anything. And suddenly you get this hockey stick growth because it’s been compounding this whole time. And I think that applies to relationships as well. Like you’re doing this daily. It’s not the flashy stuff like, I bought you a dozen roses. Yeah, but then because you were a jerk last night, these up and downs things, it’s more what contributes to that is the slow decisions every day.

Camille: That’s right. The little notes that you leave on the mirror, the little notes you leave in the car, the kind words that you say to each other every day, the way that you encourage each other. Hey, you look nice. Hey, you did a good job today. Hey, I’m proud of you.

Brent: or, hey, I remembered to pick up my dirty clothes out of the bathroom. You don’t have to actually advertise that, but you say to yourself, hey, you remember to pick up your dirty clothes out of the bathroom. This is that thing that she asked you to do. She’s going to be so, so happy. And then maybe she isn’t, maybe she doesn’t notice, but that’s, that’s not the point. The point is that you’re putting that in every day and you’re growing and you’re maturing and you’re contributing to that.

Camille: Yeah, and they may not notice right away, but over time, again, we talk about the compounding, and over time, you’ve done this thing they’ve asked you to do, and then one day, they come to you and they say, hey, I really appreciate, I noticed you’ve been doing this for a while, and I really appreciate that, it’s made my life so much easier, thank you for doing that.

Announcer: This is the Full Metal Bracket. 12:50

Brent: Oftentimes, what feels good in the moment, that spike of pleasure, what we talk about, the pleasure versus purpose, the hedonic stuff, it feels good in the moment, but it often doesn’t lead to good outcomes and decisions. Following your feelings, The example we’ve used is like to eat an entire bag of potato chips. Man, each one felt really good, but cumulative in the long run, like that was a terrible decision. I should not have done that. And with these relationships, it’s a very similar pattern. You know, you have to make the decisions that sometimes the decisions you have to make on a daily basis don’t feel as good as you think they might should. It’s like running around and having a party or whatever, but there’s the things that invest in the long-term growth.

Camille: and your feelings are gonna lie to you. They are not always gonna, your feelings say, oh yeah, this is gonna be great, this is gonna be great, this is gonna be great, and then you get to that point and like, yeah, that was a lie, this is not great.

Brent: Yes, we talk a lot of times on this show as your emotions as part of your primitive autopilot. The emotions and your instincts and stuff, they’re trying to keep you alive. They’re trying to help you send your genes down, you’re trying to keep you alive, help you reproduce, help you, but they’re very simplistic, they’re very primitive, like, hey, this feels good, this feels terrible, let’s do this. And you know, if there’s danger, it’s great. But it’s the long term satisfaction of keeping a long term marriage, of keeping a family together, of keeping a country together. Sometimes you can’t just go with what immediately feels good with you, you have to stop. Reflect, you have to, all right, that’s a cool system one response, but we’re gonna pause on that, pull up system two, think about this for a second. Yeah, we’re not gonna go with that primitive autopilot, I’m sorry.

Camille: And your partner can help you with that. They can help you realize that, hey, yeah, that does feel good, but maybe let’s try to think about what that might look like a couple days from now, a couple weeks from now, a couple years from now. It’s like, yeah, I really wanna buy that new yellow Jeep really, really bad. But the payments on that yellow Jeep are going to be really high. And can I afford it over the long term? No, I can’t.

Brent: Two things. First of all, I think from this day forward, I’m going to say you being real primitive. I’ve never done that yet, but I’m going to start. Second, I reminded of a story that I wasn’t going to cover, but I’m going to. I remember standing outside of a Toys R Us. back when those things were still a thing with my wife and our young baby. And I had this money that I really wanted to get a sweet car stereo. And this woman says, our baby needs a new car seat. And I’m like, how many speakers does the car seat come with? And she said zero. And I’m like, I’m not down with this plan. We’ve got this money. I had my heart set on this. And she’s like, this child is growing and is extending out and random limits don’t fit the car seat anymore. We have to do something mature. mature. I hates it. I hates it. That was before the Lord of the Rings, but it was that same kind of thing. It was like, Oh man. And yeah, we had to make a wise decision. And that, uh, uh, part of the young, the young 20 something me died that day. Oh no. But it was, it was the right decision to make today.

Camille: Absolutely.

Brent: It’s easier to see, but back in the day, it’s like, Oh man, we never get a break. It’s like, well, That’s where we’re at. That’s the season that we were in and we’ve moved past it. We have at least financially have a better season. There’s other challenges that we have, but yeah.

Camille: That’s right. That’s, that’s what we mean when we say sometimes you have to say no to those feelings and do the, do the right thing or the smart thing and let your spouse, let your friends, let, let, let the people that you trust who can speak into your life, speak that, speak that truth into your life and help you when those feelings are lying to you.

Brent: Yes. And I want to, I want Bracketeers, I want you to know how quickly and rapidly I matured and, and grew from that. And two kids later, I didn’t suggest to my wife that we get this giant coffee table so that I can secretly build it into a subwoofer for my home theater. Cause where it was, I learned that a little bit of packaging as towards the kids, like if the baby holds this coffee table, she’ll be able to walk better. And then, you know, the subwoofer is just a happy bonus. I didn’t end up building the subwoofer in the coffee table, but I was planning on it for a long time. I was learning how to do the win-win.

Camille: You had a lot of plans when you were younger.

Brent: I had a lot of plans. All right. So sometimes what the things that offer a lot of value in your relationship are in the long term relationship is what feels like work in the short term. You know, you have difficult conversations. You have to make compromises. You have to work on your own issues instead of blaming others.

Camille: That’s right. Sometimes when I was younger, maybe sometimes now too, but when I was younger, I would have a difficult time with my speech patterns and talking about things that made you feel uncomfortable. And so we developed a system where he would simply squeeze my leg if he was feeling uncomfortable about something that I was sharing or saying. And that would indicate to me that, okay, he’s feeling uncomfortable with that. And I could either choose in that moment to think it through and decide, do I want to keep telling this story that’s making him uncomfortable? Is it really inappropriate or is it just him feeling uncomfortable? Because sometimes it could be either one. And that was a help. That was a way that you helped me to develop and grow in some of the things that I was sharing.

Brent: Yes. And I want to qualify that story a little bit. And yes, some of that was me feeling uncomfortable. And some of that was an accountability issue where you would speak too aggressively to other people and you were still working on your…

Camille: Because I’m a very excitable person. I was named after a hurricane.

Brent: A very driven type A person. And then so there’d be the secret bulldozer. You’re being a bulldozer and running over people. Take a deep breath. Don’t panic, their eyes are glassing over, they’re gonna run. Let’s take a deep breath and let’s, you have great ideas, let’s just present them less abruptly.

Camille: So, help me.

Brent: Yes, yes, and that was a coaching thing.

Camille: Yes.

Brent: And then, but there was part of it, there was some of it was some insecurity, like, oh, you’re gonna embarrass me, but part of it was coaching. And to be honest, if you think that you have a 100%, this is a 100% pure coaching opportunity and it doesn’t involve my feelings at all, You might be right, but you might be lying to yourself. I would say more like it’s a mixed bag. It’s hard to ever have anything that’s 100%. Your own motives bleed into everything.

Camille: It’s true.

Brent: And so you just need to be as best you can to be honest with yourself about that.

Camille: Be aware of it.

Brent: Yeah. I mean, I did admit the subwoofer coffee table. I think that was, there’s a bleeding of motives there. It would have sounded awesome. It would have been great. I’m going to tell you this. I think I need to buy a new coffee table just so I can… never mind.

00:19:56 – Marriage: Small Investments Compounding Over Time

Brent: A good relationship is kind of like investing money. You have these small daily investments that compound over time to deliver results. It’s not the occasional big event. It’s not like, man, I’m going to win the lottery and put a bunch of money in next week. It’s like, hey, did you put your $2 in today? Did you put your $2 in today? Those are the things over the long run that actually build strong relationships and strong savings portfolios, I would imagine.

Camille: Yeah, that’s true.

Brent: So I keep talking about these investments and these sacrifices, but it’s not all, you know, a good marriage is not all drudgery. Like, oh, I hit the alarm. It’s time for me to put my sacrifices in today. I mean, there’s a good balance.

Camille: It’s really only drudgery when the man gets a man cold. Then it is really drudgery.

Brent: I can either confirm nor deny. I was going to go with a different example. Recently, this past summer, we renewed our vows.

Camille: We did.t was such a beautiful ceremony. It was so fun.

Brent: For our 35th anniversary, we got together and we had a couple of friends and we had our grownup children. They all got to be there this time. And we had some great vows and some things that we said, and we got to share with our kids, you know, a little bit about our path and our growth. And it was an enjoyable time. It was joyful, but it was also kind of sober, because we were in awe. We were in awe that we made it this far.

Camille: Yes. We were.

Brent: We were literally in awe that we made it this far. I can think of time, 1, 2, 29, 52, that I thought, oh man, this is it. I can’t put up with this person anymore, or I couldn’t put up with myself anymore. And it wasn’t. We were still here. And so it was kind of, it wasn’t like, You know, it was a good time, but there wasn’t like a DJ and there wasn’t a big party. It wasn’t a big sugar rush. Hedonic kind of thing. It was more of a it was a meaningful. This is a very meaningful thing. There’s great meaning in the journey that we’ve had. Our kids are here as grownups to really understand. Some of the journey that we took, some of the sacrifices we made, we feel kind of validated in what we’ve come. And so that was good. But then we followed that up with a second honeymoon, which was more of the other kind. There’s like, wow, we hit Chicago and we did all kinds of cool stuff. And that was more of the party and having fun and going to great restaurants. So, but it was both though. We had, you know, we did previously the metaphor of the guitar note. You have the spike, the initial spike, and then the sustain. And so we had this, we had the sustain first and then the spike. It was like, it was back masking. We should probably tell the evangelicals about that. It was probably Satan was involved in somehow. No. So there was a sustain.

Camille: Forget that part.

Brent: Forget that. Right. So the sustain first and then the peak, but that’s okay. You have both of them together. That’s the important part.

Camille: Yes, it was enjoyable. It was planned. There was some sacrifice involved. I mean, monetarily, time wise, with the preparation beforehand, making sure that, you know, we had everything in place. And it’s not. It would have been easier to not do it than it was to do it, but it held value to us to be able to confirm to each other how we felt and to be able to share with our family, hey, this is what it looks like when you hang in there and when you really commit to each other. And this is how we truly feel about each other.

Brent: That was good. That was real good.

Announcer: Full Mental Bracket – 23:30

Brent: All right, so another thing we need to talk about is, is marriage and identity. So as we grow and mature in age we’re gonna change as there’s something that we’ve mentioned on the show a bunch of times. It’s that identity is a snapshot It’s not a portrait on the wall that it’s you’re gonna change from day to day and you have to have a loose grip on your own identity if you want to grow but as we’ve kind of alluded to before You have to have a loose grip on your partner’s identity too, because they’re going to grow as well. And if you can’t be calm, hey, you’re not the person I married. That’s the idea. You don’t want that to happen. You have to have a loose grip for that too.

Camille: And I think we’ve talked about too, like there are going to be times when you go through something and you grow and you mature and you get up to this peak place of, I’ve got this part figured out. And you know, your partner doesn’t have that part figured out yet. And you can’t, you can’t look down at them or tell them, Hey, how come you’re not here with me yet? How come you haven’t figured this out? That’s not how that works because there’s another area where they’ve got something else figured out and you don’t.

Brent: That’s true. If I’m smiling, it’s because I’m remembering a couple conversations that went a lot like that. “Hi, my husband, I’ve got this figured out, what’s taking you so long?” But in principle, you’re absolutely correct. I told you we didn’t learn this the easy way. This didn’t come out of books, this was school of hard knocks.

Camille: Yes.

Brent: It’s like, you’re really going to go with that? It’s like, yes, I am. Like, all right. Never mind. And I’ve done it too, I’m sure.

Camille: Yes.

Brent: Yes, yes.

Camille: Yes, yes. For sure.

Brent: Oh, man. So it can, you know, and so this growing in the identity part, this can be hard. We’re not trying to, we’re not trying to minimize this, but just because your partner is growing and changing, it doesn’t mean this is a relationship ending crisis. You know, sometimes you’re like, oh, you’re not the person I married or I fell out of love with you. And you know, you have to have realistic expectations. You know, no one’s no one’s going to stay as physically fit as when they were younger. No one’s going to have their health as great as when they were younger. Hopefully they’re not going to be as immature as they were when they were younger. Hopefully all of these things grow and change over time. And you have the grace to allow that to happen.

Camille: Yes, lots of grace and have it for yourself too. You’re growing and you’re changing. And one of the things that I’ve noticed with you a lot of times is that you have a lot more grace for me than you do for yourself. And same with me. A lot of times I have a lot more grace for you or other people than I do for myself. And we really need to give that to ourselves as well.

Brent: That’s true. That is a struggle. I mean, I suppose we should give people example. So I would much rather in my life, I’d much rather hire contractors to work on my house because if they screw it up, I’m like, oh, well, they just suck. But if I screw it up and I have to look that I made a mistake every day, I’ll get up and start cussing under my breath and like that stupid wall. Why isn’t it level? Why isn’t the drywall perfect? I did it. It should be a glowing and basking in perfection. But if someone else screwed it up, I wouldn’t have a single problem with that. I go, huh, that’s weird. It’s kind of lumpy. I think they’d be better than that.

Camille: I’m kind of the opposite. If I do something as far as house around the house like that, it’s like, okay, well, you know, I did the best I could with that. It’s functional, you know, but if I’m going to pay somebody my hard-earned money, man, they better get it right.

Brent: I don’t know, man. Maybe it’s part of being an ex-Marine. I just feel like I should be walking on water or something. It’s like, I dominated this and yet it’s still there. I don’t know. So when it comes to your partner’s growth, you know, we’re not talking about like an amnesiatic twist or a soap opera twist, like I’ve suddenly decided that I’m, my name is now Raul or something. It’s like, we’re not talking about that kind of craziness, but you got to have a little room.

Camille: I see you more as a Jose.

Brent: Of course. I’m a, I’m a, I’m a Jose. As your, as, as your Jose, as your partner grows and matures, you have a chance to actually continue to fall in love with that version of them too. It’s kind of actually kind of a win-win if you can get the right mindset around it.

Camille: Yeah. And you may have to take some time to relearn your partner or your friend or your child or whoever you’re in this beautiful relationship with. You may need to take that time to get to know them again.

Brent: That’s true. That’s true. We did that when we came back from the war. It took us a long time to really get that rhythm back.

Camille: That’s true.

Brent: You know, the peaches and herb, they didn’t just keep singing that song. Or if it did, it wasn’t magical. They really should have.

Brent: So we have some tips for you. As with every long-term investment, there’ll be a day when you don’t feel like it. Maybe you want to cash in your savings and run to the Bahamas. Maybe you feel like, I just can’t put up with this person another day. This is driving me crazy.

Camille: Yes. And also, please remember that feelings come and feelings go. Feelings will lie to you.

Brent: That’s true.

Camille: They’re not always honest.

Brent: That’s true.

Camille: So what the important part is that you choose, that the commitment that you’ve made to that person, you choose that.

Brent: And you have to choose that every day. That’s a part of that investment.

Camille: Well, sometimes every minute, but it depends.

Brent: Well, I mean, every minute with you, but every week with me. It’s like, yeah, I’d love that. No? No? Okay, never mind. So once again, it’s not cheating to give your partner the right answer. It’s the really brilliant strategy.

Camille: That’s right.

Brent: It’s like, hey, so this is what I’m thinking. This is what I really need to talk to you about. This is what I really love to hear from you at this point to just kind of like, you know, and maybe they won’t agree with like, I can’t agree with that, but at least they know where you’re coming from and you’re not playing this guessing game.

Camille: And don’t be afraid to get help.

Brent: That’s true.

Camille: Counseling is not a bad word. It’s just talking with somebody else who may be able to shed some light onto your current situation and the season that you’re in and help you get through that season.

Brent: The thing that amazes me about that is men in particularly, they will look down at counseling without realizing that they’re doing it badly. They talk to the guy that’s been divorced at work five times. They’ll get counseling from the worst person. Yeah, then right before I went to prison is like, no, no, no, no, no. I don’t need your advice, buddy. Why don’t you talk to someone who actually has a good track record and knows what they’re talking about? Who can kind of teach you a thing or two? Oh no, I can’t do that. I can only talk with my other equally dysfunctional people and get some bad advice. And it’s like, yeah, that’s not, that’s not a, that’s not a good plan.

Camille: Yeah, it’s I mean, there there are good friends that you can talk to. There are people who have walked the walk the road before who can help you. And then there’s, you know, certified counselors who can really step in and give you some tools to help you work through those situations.

Brent: We’ve been through marriage counseling more than once. We’ve been bracketers. We’ve been through some crazy, stressful nonsense in 35 years. This episode is not even close to cover all of the of the crazy Hollywood level just adversity and try-fails that we’ve been through. And more than once, we’ve sat down and talked to people like, hey, this is, we’re struggling with some stuff. Help us. We’re kind of stuck. Give us a couple of clues how we get to the next level or how we defeat this problem that we’re dealing with right now.

Camille: Yeah, because you got to level up.

Brent: You got to level up.

Camille: In your marriage, you got to level up.

Brent: Look who’s a bracketeer. We got to level up. We got to lean in.

Camille: That’s right. We got to lean in and level up. To level up. We like that.

Brent: All right. So here’s your takeaways, bracketeers. What are your expectations for a romantic relationship? You need to ask yourself this question and ask you how much they lean into this whole hedonic thing. Are you looking for eternal bliss without problems? And if so, how are you going to deal with that disappointment? How are you going to readjust into a more realistic expectation for your relationship?

Camille: And are you leaving room for your partner to grow? Or are you clinging to the shell of who they used to be? Please don’t cling to the shell of who they used to be.

Brent: You got to give them room to grow. And then sometimes you have to be careful not to leave too much room. You know, it’s like, all right, I’m just going to be way over here until you’re done growing and stuff. You need to go back and remember the cheerleader thing. You need to be the loving accountability, the encouragement.

Camille: And when they’ve walked through that, you want to be able to know them.

Brent: Yeah. And you want to celebrate their wins with them.

Camille: Yeah, because you’ve invested in it.

Brent: Because you have to be close. Yes, because once again, we’re in this together. We’re not individual protagonists. We are all in a tribe together, on a journey together, supporting each other. That’s all we have for you today, Bracketeers. Be sure to follow us on the socials, subscribe, do all the cool things. Contact us at contact at FullMentalBracket.com. And we will see you next episode. Thank you very much.

Announcer: Full Mental Bracket podcast hosted by Brent Diggs. Executive producer, Brody Scott. Art design, Colby Osborne. Interact with the show at FullMentalBracket.com. This is the Full Mental Bracket.

Announcer: Full Mental Bracket. This is a Brody Scott production.

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